The thinning of Arctic sea ice

[Max]

|
| >
| > |
| > | >
message
| > | > |
| > | > | > The planet has a natural thermostat"
| > | > |
| > | > | Indeed. If it gets warm enough the planet might just kill off
enough
| > of
| > | > | us to restore the balance.
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | > Many a truth is spoken in jest. The planet killed off the
dinosaurs.
| > | >
| > | > Actually the natural thermostat is water.
| > |
| > | Of course ! It's water ! How could we have overlooked such an
obvious
| > | explanation for the complet absense of temperature changes on this
| > planet
| > | since its creation some 5600 years ago ?
| >
| > Your knowledge of time scales is worse than your spelling.
| >
| >
| > |
| > | > It is no accident the
| > | > mean temperature is the triple point.
| > | >
| > |
| > | Bwahahahahah ! This is fun !
| > | Do you honestly believe that talking gibberish is helping your case
?
| > | Or is it that writing nonsense makes your feel better ?
| > | Or are you simply blatantly ignorant of the laws of physics and
reality
| > in
| > | general ?
| > | Either way, I'm already looking forward to your elaboration on this
| > | extraordinary post of scientific ignorance.
| >
| > Some simple facts about climate.
| >
| > 1) Sun heats ocean.
| > 2) Ocean evaporates and forms clouds.
| > 3) Clouds reflect sunlight into space, reduce evaporation.
| > If you doubt it, feel the sunlight on your skin when a cloud
| > obscures the sun.
| > 4) Less cloud forms, more heat is absorbed, more cloud forms,
| > less heat is absorbed; Earth's temperature remains constant.
| > If it gets warmer, it will cool. If it gets cooler, it will warm.
| >
|
| Mmmm.
| Interesting.
| If water vapor and cloud formation cause the temperature of Earth to
remain
| constant, then why did the temperature of this planet change at all ?
| You know, ice ages and balmy climates with crocs in the Arctic and
snowball
| Earth and such.
Hmmm...
Boring.
You have an ultra-short attention span. The answer to your question was
contained in the part you snipped.
No matter, it is easy to paste.
5) Snow falls on land and polar ice fields.
6) Snow/ice reflects sunlight into space, reduces heat absorption.
Water absorbs sunlight, increases energy intake. Ice reflects
sunlight, reduces energy intake. If you doubt it, take a swim
in the Gulf of Mexico and another in the Arctic Ocean.
7) Earth cools as it radiates heat to space, more snow falls,
more sunlight is reflected, result is an Ice Age. The colder
it is, the colder it will get. The warmer it is, the warmer
it will get.
Loading Image...
8) Earth's orbit is elliptical.
9) Sunlight obeys the inverse square law.
10) Earth is tilted.
11) More sunlight reaches Earth at perihelion than at aphelion.
12) Earth's Great White Spot, Antarctica, reflects sunlight at
aphelion (Southern summer).
Loading Image...
Result, positive feedback predominates, Ice Age.
13) Earth precesses. Earth's Great White Spot reflects sunlight
at perihelion (Northern summer). But Earth's Great White Spot
has no sunlight to reflect and the Northern Wet Spot (the Arctic
Ocean) has even more sunlight to melt its ice cap than it had
when it faced the Sun at aphelion. Water absorbs far more heat
than ice. Result: more sunlight absorbed, positive feedback,
natural global warming.
Loading Image...
14) But it is offset by more cloud, see negative feedback above.
Overall result - a small change in mean temperature as a function
of precession.
15) CO2 levels rise as a consequence of a warmer planet, not as
the cause. Why? Because with more heat we have more thunderstorms
and more lightning and more forest fires, plants grow faster in a
richer CO2 atmosphere and the world gets greener instead of whiter.
16) The reason CO2 levels are as low as they are is that plant life
(including oceanic algae) gobbles it up as fast as it is produced.
Less CO2, more desert.
Bwahahahahah ! This is fun !
Do you honestly believe that talking gibberish is helping your case ?
Or is it that writing nonsense makes your feel better ?
Or are you simply blatantly ignorant of the laws of physics and reality
in general ?
Either way, I'm already looking forward to your snipping on this
extraordinary post of scientific knowledge.

Androcles,

You are funny. If you were thinking scientific, you would have realized that
none of your points are relevant without quantification.
So until now, you posted 16 points of opinion, and you posted zero
scientific evidence.

Let's have some fun with this. Let's take your point 14, which you claim
shows the "Overall result" which you mention to be "a small change in mean
temperature as a function of precession.".

So let me ask you directly : How "small" is this change in mean temperature
as a function of precession ?
It's high school physics : We know the changes in precession of our planet,
so you can calculate the mean solar irradiance changes precession causes,
and thus you can calculate the Stephan Boltzman temperature response of the
planet to these precession changes. You can also include ice-albedo changes
as long as you quantify them. Then check if these temperature changes match
with our paleo-climate record for, say, the glacial/inter-glacial periods
from the past couple of million years.

Go ahead, I'm listening. Would be good if at least FOR ONCE you would do
some actual scientific thinking and lay out the reasons for your (so far
unsubstantiated and unquantified) opinions regarding feedback factors.

Max

[Max]

|
| >
| > |
| > | >
| > | > |
message
| > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > message
| > | > | > | >
in
| > | > message
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > The planet has a natural thermostat"
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | Indeed. If it gets warm enough the planet might just
kill
| > off
| > | > enough
| > | > | > of
| > | > | > | > | us to restore the balance.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Many a truth is spoken in jest. The planet killed off the
| > | > dinosaurs.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Actually the natural thermostat is water.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Of course ! It's water ! How could we have overlooked such
an
| > | > obvious
| > | > | > | explanation for the complet absense of temperature changes
on
| > this
| > | > | > planet
| > | > | > | since its creation some 5600 years ago ?
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Your knowledge of time scales is worse than your spelling.
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > It is no accident the
| > | > | > | > mean temperature is the triple point.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Bwahahahahah ! This is fun !
| > | > | > | Do you honestly believe that talking gibberish is helping
your
| > case
| > | > ?
| > | > | > | Or is it that writing nonsense makes your feel better ?
| > | > | > | Or are you simply blatantly ignorant of the laws of physics
and
| > | > reality
| > | > | > in
| > | > | > | general ?
| > | > | > | Either way, I'm already looking forward to your elaboration
on
| > this
| > | > | > | extraordinary post of scientific ignorance.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Some simple facts about climate.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > 1) Sun heats ocean.
| > | > | > 2) Ocean evaporates and forms clouds.
| > | > | > 3) Clouds reflect sunlight into space, reduce evaporation.
| > | > | > If you doubt it, feel the sunlight on your skin when a cloud
| > | > | > obscures the sun.
| > | > | > 4) Less cloud forms, more heat is absorbed, more cloud forms,
| > | > | > less heat is absorbed; Earth's temperature remains constant.
| > | > | > If it gets warmer, it will cool. If it gets cooler, it will
warm.
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > | Mmmm.
| > | > | Interesting.
| > | > | If water vapor and cloud formation cause the temperature of
Earth
to
| > | > remain
| > | > | constant, then why did the temperature of this planet change at
all
| > ?
| > | > | You know, ice ages and balmy climates with crocs in the Arctic
and
| > | > snowball
| > | > | Earth and such.
| > | >
| > | > Hmmm...
| > | > Boring.
| > | > You have an ultra-short attention span. The answer to your
question
| > was
| > | > contained in the part you snipped.
| > | > No matter, it is easy to paste.
| > | >
| > | > 5) Snow falls on land and polar ice fields.
| > | > 6) Snow/ice reflects sunlight into space, reduces heat absorption.
| > | > Water absorbs sunlight, increases energy intake. Ice reflects
| > | > sunlight, reduces energy intake. If you doubt it, take a swim
| > | > in the Gulf of Mexico and another in the Arctic Ocean.
| > | > 7) Earth cools as it radiates heat to space, more snow falls,
| > | > more sunlight is reflected, result is an Ice Age. The colder
| > | > it is, the colder it will get. The warmer it is, the warmer
| > | > it will get.
| > | >
| > | > http://androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Wave/KeplerSunlight.jpg
| > | > 8) Earth's orbit is elliptical.
| > | > 9) Sunlight obeys the inverse square law.
| > | > 10) Earth is tilted.
| > | > 11) More sunlight reaches Earth at perihelion than at aphelion.
| > | > 12) Earth's Great White Spot, Antarctica, reflects sunlight at
| > | > aphelion (Southern summer).
| > | > http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/earth_1_apollo17.gif
| > | > Result, positive feedback predominates, Ice Age.
| > | > 13) Earth precesses. Earth's Great White Spot reflects sunlight
| > | > at perihelion (Northern summer). But Earth's Great White Spot
| > | > has no sunlight to reflect and the Northern Wet Spot (the Arctic
| > | > Ocean) has even more sunlight to melt its ice cap than it had
| > | > when it faced the Sun at aphelion. Water absorbs far more heat
| > | > than ice. Result: more sunlight absorbed, positive feedback,
| > | > natural global warming.
| > | >
| > | >
| >
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Gyroscope_precession.gif
| > | >
| > | > 14) But it is offset by more cloud, see negative feedback above.
| > | > Overall result - a small change in mean temperature as a function
| > | > of precession.
| > | > 15) CO2 levels rise as a consequence of a warmer planet, not as
| > | > the cause. Why? Because with more heat we have more thunderstorms
| > | > and more lightning and more forest fires, plants grow faster in a
| > | > richer CO2 atmosphere and the world gets greener instead of
whiter.
| > | > 16) The reason CO2 levels are as low as they are is that plant
life
| > | > (including oceanic algae) gobbles it up as fast as it is produced.
| > | > Less CO2, more desert.
| > | >
| > | > Bwahahahahah ! This is fun !
| > | > Do you honestly believe that talking gibberish is helping your
case
?
| > | > Or is it that writing nonsense makes your feel better ?
| > | > Or are you simply blatantly ignorant of the laws of physics and
| > reality
| > | > in general ?
| > | > Either way, I'm already looking forward to your snipping on this
| > | > extraordinary post of scientific knowledge.
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| > | Androcles,
| > |
| > | You are funny. If you were thinking scientific, you would have
realized
| > that
| > | none of your points are relevant without quantification.
| > | So until now, you posted 16 points of opinion, and you posted zero
| > | scientific evidence.
| >
| >
| > Ah, I see. The sun shining through my living room window and
| > heating my chair, the cat lying where rays strike the carpet, the
| > lack of this heating effect when it is cloudy, a hot car on a sunny
| > day when you go back to it in the grocery store parking lot, The
| > term "it's cooler in the shade", none of this is "scientific
evidence",
| > it is opinion.
| > Perhaps I should be wearing a white lab coat with a dozen pens
| > and a thermometer in the pocket, wear thick-ringed black
| > eyeglasses and carry a slide rule to make it "scientific" evidence.
| >
| > "5) Snow falls on land and polar ice fields."
| > This is opinion and not "scientific" evidence, according to Max.
| >
| > Max, you are not only funny, you can't count to 16, you are
| > incredibly stupid, and you have no idea what science is.
| >
| > Bwahahahahah ! This is fun !
| > Do you honestly believe that talking Gibberese is helping your case ?
| > Or is it that writing nonsense makes your feel better ?
| > Or are you simply blatantly ignorant of the laws of physics and
reality
| > in general ?
| >
| > The natural thermostat is water.
| > Now be a good little boy and fuck off, you are far more stupid
| > than funny. Come back when you've learnt to count to 16.
| >
| >
|
| You are doing great Androcles !
| 16 empty statements, no argument, no quantification, no answers to
| questions. Just tossing ad hominems around.
Well yes, one empty ad hominem deserves another.

I challenge you to point out where I stated an empty ad hominem.
Let me guess. You are going to dodge that challenge too, just like you
dodged my questions about your statements.

Now be a good little boy and fuck off, you are far more stupid
than funny.

Another great example of Androcles' unique linguistic skills.

Come back when you've learnt the difference between
a statement of fact such as "Earth is tilted" and an opinion,
you stupid cunt.

Didn't your mamma tell you to wash your mouth out with soap after such
language ?

Max

[Max]

|
| >
| > |
| > | >
| > | > |
message
| > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > message
| > | > | > | >
in
| > | > message
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > The planet has a natural thermostat"
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | Indeed. If it gets warm enough the planet might just
kill
| > off
| > | > enough
| > | > | > of
| > | > | > | > | us to restore the balance.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Many a truth is spoken in jest. The planet killed off the
| > | > dinosaurs.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Actually the natural thermostat is water.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Of course ! It's water ! How could we have overlooked such
an
| > | > obvious
| > | > | > | explanation for the complet absense of temperature changes
on
| > this
| > | > | > planet
| > | > | > | since its creation some 5600 years ago ?
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Your knowledge of time scales is worse than your spelling.
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > It is no accident the
| > | > | > | > mean temperature is the triple point.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Bwahahahahah ! This is fun !
| > | > | > | Do you honestly believe that talking gibberish is helping
your
| > case
| > | > ?
| > | > | > | Or is it that writing nonsense makes your feel better ?
| > | > | > | Or are you simply blatantly ignorant of the laws of physics
and
| > | > reality
| > | > | > in
| > | > | > | general ?
| > | > | > | Either way, I'm already looking forward to your elaboration
on
| > this
| > | > | > | extraordinary post of scientific ignorance.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Some simple facts about climate.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > 1) Sun heats ocean.
| > | > | > 2) Ocean evaporates and forms clouds.
| > | > | > 3) Clouds reflect sunlight into space, reduce evaporation.
| > | > | > If you doubt it, feel the sunlight on your skin when a cloud
| > | > | > obscures the sun.
| > | > | > 4) Less cloud forms, more heat is absorbed, more cloud forms,
| > | > | > less heat is absorbed; Earth's temperature remains constant.
| > | > | > If it gets warmer, it will cool. If it gets cooler, it will
warm.
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > | Mmmm.
| > | > | Interesting.
| > | > | If water vapor and cloud formation cause the temperature of
Earth
to
| > | > remain
| > | > | constant, then why did the temperature of this planet change at
all
| > ?
| > | > | You know, ice ages and balmy climates with crocs in the Arctic
and
| > | > snowball
| > | > | Earth and such.
| > | >
| > | > Hmmm...
| > | > Boring.
| > | > You have an ultra-short attention span. The answer to your
question
| > was
| > | > contained in the part you snipped.
| > | > No matter, it is easy to paste.
| > | >
| > | > 5) Snow falls on land and polar ice fields.
| > | > 6) Snow/ice reflects sunlight into space, reduces heat absorption.
| > | > Water absorbs sunlight, increases energy intake. Ice reflects
| > | > sunlight, reduces energy intake. If you doubt it, take a swim
| > | > in the Gulf of Mexico and another in the Arctic Ocean.
| > | > 7) Earth cools as it radiates heat to space, more snow falls,
| > | > more sunlight is reflected, result is an Ice Age. The colder
| > | > it is, the colder it will get. The warmer it is, the warmer
| > | > it will get.
| > | >
| > | > http://androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Wave/KeplerSunlight.jpg
| > | > 8) Earth's orbit is elliptical.
| > | > 9) Sunlight obeys the inverse square law.
| > | > 10) Earth is tilted.
| > | > 11) More sunlight reaches Earth at perihelion than at aphelion.
| > | > 12) Earth's Great White Spot, Antarctica, reflects sunlight at
| > | > aphelion (Southern summer).
| > | > http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/earth_1_apollo17.gif
| > | > Result, positive feedback predominates, Ice Age.
| > | > 13) Earth precesses. Earth's Great White Spot reflects sunlight
| > | > at perihelion (Northern summer). But Earth's Great White Spot
| > | > has no sunlight to reflect and the Northern Wet Spot (the Arctic
| > | > Ocean) has even more sunlight to melt its ice cap than it had
| > | > when it faced the Sun at aphelion. Water absorbs far more heat
| > | > than ice. Result: more sunlight absorbed, positive feedback,
| > | > natural global warming.
| > | >
| > | >
| >
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Gyroscope_precession.gif
| > | >
| > | > 14) But it is offset by more cloud, see negative feedback above.
| > | > Overall result - a small change in mean temperature as a function
| > | > of precession.
| > | > 15) CO2 levels rise as a consequence of a warmer planet, not as
| > | > the cause. Why? Because with more heat we have more thunderstorms
| > | > and more lightning and more forest fires, plants grow faster in a
| > | > richer CO2 atmosphere and the world gets greener instead of
whiter.
| > | > 16) The reason CO2 levels are as low as they are is that plant
life
| > | > (including oceanic algae) gobbles it up as fast as it is produced.
| > | > Less CO2, more desert.
| > | >
| > | > Bwahahahahah ! This is fun !
| > | > Do you honestly believe that talking gibberish is helping your
case
?
| > | > Or is it that writing nonsense makes your feel better ?
| > | > Or are you simply blatantly ignorant of the laws of physics and
| > reality
| > | > in general ?
| > | > Either way, I'm already looking forward to your snipping on this
| > | > extraordinary post of scientific knowledge.
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| > | Androcles,
| > |
| > | You are funny. If you were thinking scientific, you would have
realized
| > that
| > | none of your points are relevant without quantification.
| > | So until now, you posted 16 points of opinion, and you posted zero
| > | scientific evidence.
| >
| >
| > Ah, I see. The sun shining through my living room window and
| > heating my chair, the cat lying where rays strike the carpet, the
| > lack of this heating effect when it is cloudy, a hot car on a sunny
| > day when you go back to it in the grocery store parking lot, The
| > term "it's cooler in the shade", none of this is "scientific
evidence",
| > it is opinion.
| > Perhaps I should be wearing a white lab coat with a dozen pens
| > and a thermometer in the pocket, wear thick-ringed black
| > eyeglasses and carry a slide rule to make it "scientific" evidence.
| >
| > "5) Snow falls on land and polar ice fields."
| > This is opinion and not "scientific" evidence, according to Max.
| >
| > Max, you are not only funny, you can't count to 16, you are
| > incredibly stupid, and you have no idea what science is.
| >
| > Bwahahahahah ! This is fun !
| > Do you honestly believe that talking Gibberese is helping your case ?
| > Or is it that writing nonsense makes your feel better ?
| > Or are you simply blatantly ignorant of the laws of physics and
reality
| > in general ?
| >
| > The natural thermostat is water.
| > Now be a good little boy and fuck off, you are far more stupid
| > than funny. Come back when you've learnt to count to 16.
| >
| >
|
| You are doing great Androcles !
| 16 empty statements, no argument, no quantification, no answers to
| questions. Just tossing ad hominems around.
Well yes, one empty ad hominem deserves another.

Let me guess. You are going to dodge explaining which of my statements was
empty ad hominem ?
Just like you dodged my questions to quantify your statements ?
Why am I not surprised ?

Is there anything that we will ever hear from you that actually
substantiates or quantifies your empty assertions (about climate or
otherwise) ?
Or are you just another one of this NG's empty headed trolls ?

Now be a good little boy and fuck off, you are far more stupid
than funny.

Another great example of Androcles' unique linguistic skills.

Come back when you've learnt the difference between
a statement of fact such as "Earth is tilted" and an opinion,
you stupid cunt.

Didn't your mamma tell you to wash your mouth out with soap after such
language ?

Max